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Talk:Trill/archive
Trill symbol backwards Did anyone notice, that in , the trill symbol on the computer panel is backwords. When ever else we see it ( , ) it's always the way we all know it. The pictures on the page. I just felt this should be pointed out. (In reality, this might even cause a diplomatic incident, think if a countries flag was upside down at a diplomatic function...) -AJHalliwell 18:24, 7 May 2005 (UTC) :Trill culture could have different standards of display depending on the circumstances. Look at current US Military uniforms, the American Flag looks "backwards" on the right sleeves but that's because it's supposed to represent the flag as it would appear if you were marching forward. Cory 20:19, 3 January 2007 (UTC) ::One note, that is only on certain uniforms and certain services :P --OuroborosCobra talk 22:51, 3 January 2007 (UTC) Evolution of the (joined) Trill? Is there anything known (or at least some good educated guesses) about the (Co?)-Evolution of these two sentient species? I know about this Progenitor "thing" to explain the abundance of humanoids with similar genetic makeup but then the symbionts on its own on top of that? A quick "genetic engineering" excuse? My guesses would be they are either a degenerated (speaking about physical form) species since these "worms" don't seem to meet the requirements to evolve intelligence on its own and were then deliberately "integrated" – or they first were small parasites which then (in a race with the hosts immune system) evolved smarter and smarter and less parasitic and finally found the connection to the hosts nervous system (maybe facilitated by a bacteria plasmid like DNA exchange), the symbionts as they are now probably just contain brain matter. : um, wow, that doesn't make any sense, sorry, I'm confused here, they started out as bacteria, exchanged plasmids with humanoid hosts who were also sentient bacteria? and then they evolved into eukaryotes? pure gibberish, why would they have plasmids?? at all??? what? Heh, well, the type of the early parasite organism doesn't matter that much: My point is that the parasite relationship could have turned into a symbiotic one by an exchange of genetic material, and this could have incorporated genes for a nervous system, explaining how they became sentient beings without and abundance of external senses, of course it could just as well have evolved on its own yet then the neuro-symbiosis would become much harder. The nerve cells then gave the parasites an advantage etc. etc. and in the end they found the connection to the hosts brain. Here I just took "plasmid" as the prototype for an exchange of genes, not implying type of cells (is even this much mentioned about alien physiology?). The host and parasite would be multicellular since that is a requirement that some cells can specialize into nerve cells, and in the beginning there might have been thousands of parasites per host competing against each other. And probably even before the neuro-symbiosis the parasites/symbionts gave some advantage to the host so maybe the hosts also evolved towards their symbionts to improve the synergy. -- 00:26, 18 Jul 2005 (UTC) ::Why is this even here? This is pure speculation, and should be moved to Memory Alpha:Reference Desk. The symbiont's have been shown on TV to have intelligence, and sentience. It was also stated in an episode that the two were forced to join by some kind of disaster. Never were they mentioned as parasites (except in an insulting way) - AJHalliwell 01:54, 18 Jul 2005 (UTC) ::: Okay, You know how the first humanoids planted genetic info in all of the humanoid species of the galaxy? Well, what if DS9 Trills and TNG Trills got very similar genetic codes? After all, There is the unknown species on Trillius Prime that could me the TNG Trills. (I don't watch enterprise, if im in error about Trillius Prime, Sorry.)- Odan and use of transporter In the TNG Trill episode (The Host, I believe) wasn't Odan unable to be transported, because that would damage the symbiont? Dax has certainly used the transporter plenty of times. : Maybe it's not all trill and just the Odan symbiont hated transporters. Remember, Dax was afraid of heights cause Curzon fell out of a tree once. Maybe a previous Odan was involved in a transporter accident. - AJHalliwell 23:53, 17 Aug 2005 (UTC) :: speaking of Odan, why don't we have a picture of a TNG trill on this page (not counting the test picture of Dax with the TNG makeup) shouldn't there be one with the trill male and female examples at the top of the page. -ACES HIGH 07:49, 21 November 2006 (UTC) ::: Fools, it's not that Odan couldn't be transported, it's that he didn't want to be transported because then they would see the fracking symbiont! -Shadowmask 23:10, 14 May 2007 :::: "It would have damaged the symbiont" - Crusher, 18 minutes 25 seconds in.... Darth Itachi (talk) 14:38, January 14, 2014 (UTC) Trill romance I seem to recall in the episode that Jadzia's claim that joined Trill are above romance was just a ploy to brush Bashir off. It certainly doesn't jibe with her subsequent behavior, or with Odan's. : We might also consider that perhaps the Trill notion of romance is not associated with the specific approaches that we've seen Julian employ. In fairness, we do eventually see those approaches succeed with Ezri, in support of your idea.Ereiid 06:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC) Link to Kriosian/Valtese? DS9 trills have exactly the same make up than these species (that are in fact the same one). May trills be a Valtese/Kriosian offroot, like romulan are exiled vulcans? Of course, we never heard than kriosians are a joined species. Mayb a few kriosians accepted to be joined to the symbiont, and leave their planet for trill? (User:Rami) :Actually, they have similar make ups. Facially, their the same, but Kriosian spots don't go down their front to their feet, it goes down to their neck, then around to their back, and the two rows meet at a point about half-way down their back. Kamala wore some dresses that showed this in the TNG episode. - AJHalliwell 00:03, 3 Sep 2005 (UTC) thanks. -- The connection is a real world one, not an in-universe one. The actress who played Kamala was originally offered the role of Jadzia Dax. 06:37, November 15, 2019 (UTC)El Forum:Trill spots I have been looking for a definitive pattern for the Trill Markings like those of Dax and others from ST:DS9, TNG movies and so forth. I have written and searched high and low to no avail- As these are for a Tattoo- full body- I would like to have them as correct as possible.... Does ANYONE out there have any ideas or suggestions?? Thanks Pookie! :Your best source is Star Trek: Aliens & Artifacts. It contains a copy of the guide that hung on the wall and used for application of Jadzia's spots. But don't be too manic about it; as Westmore says in the book: "Even though I conformed to the Trill spot pattern that hung in her trailer, the placement of the spots was always different each time she was made up." Aholland 16:52, 21 April 2006 (UTC) thanks for the heads up- Do you by ANY chance have a copy of this guide or a high res scan? I just check with local book store and they can order it BUT I ha to start the Tatts next week... Again thank you very much for your help! My email is Pookiebear364 at gmail dot com Thanks Pookie :Check your email later today. Aholland 17:18, 21 April 2006 (UTC) THANKS- got it!! PERFECT!!! :: Could i Possibly get a copy of that as well? the email is, sloth980 at yahoo dot come. ::: ditto! it looks like the book won't get here in time for a costume party next week. could anybody email me a high res photo of the guide? charlottebug at gmail dot com ::::The editor who was sending the emails has not been active in almost 2 years. --OuroborosCobra talk 18:58, 12 April 2008 (UTC) :::::Are you getting a Jadzia makeover with real Trill tattoos? That'd be so cool. :-) So are you having them all the way down ;-) would also like a copy- thestrangeoneuk at yahoo dot co dot uk. - Thanks :p ::::I guess my previous comment wasn't clear. You are asking for an email from someone who has not been on Memory Alpha in about 2 years, someone who will not see this request, etc. --OuroborosCobra talk 21:57, 12 April 2008 (UTC) Guess for TNG vs DS9 trills Several fan sites discuss the question to know why TNG and Ds9 trill looks so different. I have a personal guess : * The name "trill" in fact refer to he species of the symbiont, not the humanoids. These symbionts have somehow developed the capability to be "connected" with two humanoid species, from two different planets. * After centuries, both species tend to be referred as "trill" even though it's not a proper name. i recognized this explanation is not sufficient. For instance, when jadzia dies, they absolutely need to transplant dax into a trill. By contrast, Odan's symbiont can live in riker. -- :... Or, and now this is a crazy idea, maybe it's just because the DS9 producers didn't like that look, and maybe every tiny aesthetic difference doesn't always need to be explained. Whenever Trek tries to back explain aesthetic differences we end up with fiascoes like that Klingon virus nonsense. -- some guy :: My guess: The DS9 Trills are the dominant style of Trills, and in these, the symbiont can (and does) form very strong relationship with the Trill and it is more of a partnership; quite ideal. The TNG Trill (like Odan) are simply another group who found that they could also join with these symbionts long ago, so they were also called Trill. However, the relationship here is not as good. The symbiont gains full control and the body is essentially a vessel for the symbiont. Since there isn't as strong of a relationship here, the symbiont can temporarily be transferred to another non-Trill, like what occurred with Riker. Since this joining is not as good as the first, it becomes less and less popular, so much to the point that we hardly ever see the TNG-Trill, even though they are still technically considered Trill. My take, anyway. -[[User:Platypus222|'Platypus Man']] | ''Talk'' 05:24, 25 Dec 2005 (UTC) :::: Well, considering that at least two sentient species evolved on the Trill homeworld, it seems entirely likely that a third could have. Jaz 09:06, 6 Jan 2006 (UTC) ::::: It does seem possible that the term trill refers to the symbiote, not the humanoid species, given that during the hearing in "Dax," both Sisko and Tandro refer to Jadzia becoming a Trill, meaning she was not already one before she was joined. 03:44, 12 February 2006 (UTC) :::: I disagree. Only 1 in every 1000 trill are given a symbiont. When referring to the symbiont, it is called that whether joined or unjoined. The humanoids in question have been consistently referred to as the Trill, and those without the worm have been called unjoined trill. Also, please join MA. Click the blue link in the top-right corner of the screen and all you have to do is pick a name and a password - you don't even need to give an e-mail if you don't want to. Jaz talk | novels 03:57, 12 February 2006 (UTC) :::::: Two different races with similar names and similar biologies. EG: people from Ghana and Guinea might look alike, but they are from two different countries. :::::: maybe it was faulty genetic engineering LOL!! ::::::: Maybe a Trill Augment virus? :P --From Andoria with Love 20:14, 30 March 2006 (UTC) :::::::: Hmmmm....Jadzia said in the episode with Verad that 1 in 10 trill are chosen to be joined..... Its entirely possible, although, that not all chosen Trill are actually joined... ::::::::: RE: Platypus222: I agree with this idea. It might also be that the "spotted" Trills are a species native to the same planet as the Trill Symbionts, and thus the joint relationship is older and better evolved, while the "ridged" or TNG Trills originated on another planet, and came into contact with the Symbionts later, found they could join, but that they could not have as symbiotic a relationship with their symbionts. --Jadza 17:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC) :::::::::: If one were to go to the official Star Trek website and look up trill in the encylopedia they have, one would find these words: "Among the humanoid Trill joined species, apparently at least two races of hosts are used to house a symbiont: those of the ridged forehead, like Odan, and those like Jadzia, Curzon and Selin, with a narrow speckled band running along the hairline to the sides of the neck, then down along the body."--lifeisharsh20 ::::::::::: Personally I think this issue have been made over complicated. In every single animal on earth there are sub-species, including Humans, Neanderthals are a sub-species of human. There is no biological sense in thinking that sentient animals on have one species. A simple answer would be is that the TNG Trills are merely a less common sub-species of Trill. With that, the TNG symbiont looks different from the DS9 symbiont, so it is possible there is another sub-species of Trill symbiot (which may only be able to join with the TNG Trill), or more likely, its just a variation, like skin colour in humans. The TNG Trills (or the Beta-Trill Species as I have sometime heard them called)will have some biological differences, which means they dont mix well with transporters, while the DS9 Trills do not have this biological problem. ~Bednall667 :::::::::::: Overcomplicated? It doesn't seem a minor biological difference that in the TNG Trill the symbiont completely controls the humanoid, while on DS9 they are permanently joined as fused personalities. This is on top of the fact that the whole point of the TNG episode was Odan trying to continue his romantic relationship with Beverly Crusher from inside a new body, whereas this is considered taboo in the culture of the DS9 Trills. Add too the fact that the Federation has no idea that the Trills are a joined species at all when encountered on TNG, yet on DS9 Trills have had close contact with Earth for over a century and some have even been appointed to important Federation positions. Considering that the idea of a sub-species in and of itself doesn't go very far toward resolving these inconsistencies, the issue is complicated indeed. It does absolutely deserve further discussion. :::::::::::: I can only think that Odan may have been a kind of rebel who began joining with other species in his travels as an ambassador, and that at that time the Federation had not been informed that Trills were anything other than the humanoids they appeared to be. In this scenario, Odan would be endangering Trill society by possibly allowing the the secret to get out that joining was not as exclusive as its leaders had claimed--a secret later revealed on DS9, and here extending the principle even to other humanoid species with presumably similar biological makeups to the Trill. I would further conjecture that Odan was intentionally practicing a warped form of the "joining" in which he essentially took control of the humanoid body, a practice of conceivable use to an ambassador but ethically questionable and having medical consequences--which is why Odan's connection with his host body can be jeopardized even by use of the transporter. This explanation tries to tie the inconsistencies about Odan into one another to minimize the necessary conjectures: he is following hardly any of their ethical practices, but even with the relatively slight visual differences between the symbiont as it appeared on the two different series, he is at least still plausible as a Trill. When faced with necessary conjectures, it seems to me that it requires the least invention to make Odan a highly unconventional member of the species, rather than creating a whole subspecies, Trill breakaway faction, radically different subculture or even two already unlikely separate symbiont species which, in a fantastic coincidence, would both have a name that sounds like "Trill." :::::::::::: Offscreen, in between TNG "The Host" and DS9, the Federation must have learned of the true nature of the Trill and been presented with some glossed-over explanation about Odan which made sure to establish the way practiced on the Trill homeworld as the "right" way. Thus, in this speculative explanation, it is unlikely that the Trill planet was a Federation member before then, even though individual Trills may have had much contact with the Federation prior to the revelation of this information. They may well have become members afterward, though I don't believe there is a clear statement either way. :::::::::::: I offer these conjectures for those who might wish to prepare half-plausible italicized notations for the article in an effort to explain the problematic contradictory elements which will have to be contained within it. Defensible rationalizations in italics are a much better choice than simply letting the article whitewash the major differences between the depictions of "Trills" on TNG and DS9.-- , 05:51 14 February 2007 ::::::::::::: I'm not sure where I came across the idea first, but in discussion with others, the best idea we came up with was the existence of three species on Trill, the symbionts plus "Alpha" and "Beta" Trill for lack of a better term. ::::::::::::: Alpha Trills, like the host of Odan, are completely subsumed by the symbiont's personality - the host is in complete control, making the relationship more parasitic than symbiotic. This is probably how the relationship originally started on the Trill homeworld. It's also highly likely that every Alpha Trill can carry a symbiont... besides, you don't need any sort of exhaustive tests when the symbiont is running the body anyway. ::::::::::::: On the flip side, Beta Trills, like Jadzia, Curzon, and Ezri, share the experience with the symbiont - a truly symbiotic relationship. While 50% of Beta Trill are physiologically capable of being bound with a symbiont, the number that are psycologically capable of it is significantly lower, hence the original need for the Symbiosis Commission. – Timothy J. Lanza 20:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC) :::::::::::::: RE Bednall667: again, the transporter-phobia was a ruse; the trill did not want the symbiont to be detected, as it would be if it were teleported. :::::::::::::: RE : this explanation, while plausible, is overcomplicated. A simpler explanation would be that the trill homeworld is home to two humanoid and one symbiont species who can join with both. (it doesn't seem likely that the humanoids are 2 varieties of one species, as a difference as great as psychic dominance implies distant relation.) One of the humanoid species reacts differently to joining than the other. as for the differing appearance of the symbionts in DS9 and TNG, they may simply be variations within the species, or the Odan symbiont is a mutant, or it could be explained away as a production gaffe. As for reassociation, the DS9 trill were reluctant to bring up the issue to Dax or her former mate; the same may have been the case with Odan. 18:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC) ::::::::::::::: RE lifeisharsh20: I feel I should add the fact that all life on earth can be called Terrans (or Earthlings), yet only one be called Humans due to we all come from Terra (aka Earth yet only one species is call Human), since both species are from the Planet Trill, its acceptable to call both Trills, yet they might have seperate species names on their homeworld. Something like that at least. 18:20, 11 October 2007 (UTC) ::::::::::::::: RE I'm strangely watching TNG: "The Host" right now on Virgin 1. Odan has just told B.Crusher "It has always been this way, the Trill are a joined species, the host and the symbiont, in this fashion we have survived for a millennia" he suggests the Trill are the symbiont, and the host is no more then a vesill, which goes against the DS9 Trill, which are a true joining of both minds. The episode suggests through out the Trill are out side of the Federation's jurisdiction. And like the two different Humanoid's, the to Trill symbionts look dramatically different also. I would love to believe the two species with spots, and other with cranial ridges were separate species. Odan's people needed the joining to maintain the survival of he's speices and Star Fleets communication's doesn't recognise the difference between the two species, nor the difference between a joined and non-joined entity. The term Trill meaning, "to be joined" in one of the many Federation languages as in English one would say "German" instead of Dutch.. or a reference to "trill", a musical ornament consisting of a rapid alternation between TWO adjacent notes of a scale. I would like to believe along a go, the Trill travelled the galaxy, at which time the Symbionts were stolen by other species, hence the Trill's need for secrecy about their joining. This great Trill Empire may have even given life to the Kriosian and Valtese species from TNG "perfect mate", where we're first introduced to the empathic metamorph... But lets face it, in the same way Klingon's and the Borg have been given a lick of paint, so have the Trill. I doubt Judzia's sexy bisexual ways would have been as alluring with Cranial Ridges. Could it be Picard sexual desires for female Kriosian empathic metamorph, Kamala was more about the Trill like spots then her metamorphic abilities? ~ Tooleyse1 All this theorizing makes me think that this absurd explanation is as likely as any other. Maybe the Trills on TNG were from another completely different joined species, but were using telepathy (and a computer virus for Data) to manipulate the Enterprise crew. But their plan was so masterful as to not be revealed. ~VenomTongue Here's my guess: the Kriosians and the DS9 spotted humanoid Trills are cousins. An earlier interstellar empire deposited both on different planets. The ones that colonized the Trill homeworld, about 25,000 years ago, discovered the symbionts, formed a friendship with them, and found they could join with them. Many different types of humanoids can join with symbionts, with varying degrees of success. The spotted humanoids are just in the majority. 04:30, April 19, 2011 (UTC) Who controls the Trill humanoid? The symbiont or the humanoid? It appears that Jadzia Dax and other humanoid Trill retain control of their bodies after being implanted with a symbiont. However, Captain Sisko often called her "Old Man", implying that the humanoid Jadzia was being controlled by the symbiont, Dax. The host inherits the memories, abilities, etc. of past hosts, but does the symbiont take control over the humanoid's body? The article Dax (symbiont), states this: *"Each joining of Dax with a host created a new, unique individual, but each individual also carried the memories of the previous hosts." Do we have evidence to support this claim? 00:59, 2 August 2006 (UTC) :As far as I know, pretty much any Dax-oriented episodes (and a few others) of support this claim. :P --From Andoria with Love 02:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC) :: Or Sisko was just refering to Jadzia as old man because he knew that she had Curzon's memories and Sisko called him that.ACES HIGH 07:46, 21 November 2006 (UTC) :::There is strong canon evidence that each joining creates (at least in the view of Trill culture) a new individual, yes. Just for example, Jadzia Dax is married to Worf, but Ezri Dax is not -- the woman Worf married is dead. Memories, however, are retained, as is revealed in and expounded in various DS9 episodes. --Jonadab, 2007 Feb 4 ::::I've gota say from what i've seen we Watching DS9 ACES HIGH has hit the nail on the head Jadzia is not curzon despite having his memories and feelings. Sisko stated that he served under Curzon for many years so it would make sence that Sisko would have known this and its probably just a old habit as he even Called Ezri old man a few times. And Jonadab to appears to have hit the target that is all very true infact there is a Trill law that states if a Trill gets involed with a previous Hosts Relationship the Symbiont is to be banished from the planet Trill and will eventuly die with out a new host and this was to ensure each host gets to live there own lift. Carnt remember the Episode if i do or some one else does i hope you will mention it. --Garris-fraya 02:26, 18 April 2009 (UTC) :::::I think this is a very complicated and philosophical topic. suggests that the symbiont controls everything. But many aspects of that episode can be disregarded. And when the symbiont controls everything, why would anyone voluntarily be a host? And even work hard to become one? :::::As mentioned above, Sisko stated once that with each joining a new personality is created. And we can clearly observe that Jadzia and Ezri have completely different personalities. Jadzia is more of a joker and Ezri is not. :::::Joran was joined for six months. So clearly the Dax smybiont did not have a say in it assuming he didnt enjoy being in the body of a killer. :::::So who is in control now? Id say in DS9 its the host. The new personality that Sisko was referring to is the result of the new memories. Memories are a huge part of who you are. If you have memories of being in a terrible war you react differently in certain situations than without those memories. So the bunch of new memories that are introduced clearly do change the way you react and behave. We saw in that Jadzia adopted the holding hands behind her back from Lela, which is per definition a change in behavior. --Maxwell Fawkes 20:20, 20 May 2009 (UTC) ::::::The very strong impression that U have got from watching DS9 over many years is that it's a sort of hybrid between the two look at the 'Facets' episode again - pay special attention to the Curzon / Odo coupling. Something like that. RicoRichmond 00:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC) ::::::: They both do. the symbiote/host live in symbiosis forming an symbiotic living with both forming 1 mind. If symbiote is removed, the host will die because the link is severed, but the host will relink to next host. The link is not breakable after 3 days. This is shown on the trial where daxx is on trial on crimes he has done before on last host. Theres also a example of this by the captain sisco, there is 2 "brains" but only 1 mind and 2 almost identical brainwaves. Almost like 2 computers acting as a 1 network. --JHawx 20:05, February 20, 2010 (UTC) Symbionts' Reproduction How do symbionts reproduce? 00:14, 29 October 2008 (UTC) ::I think it was said that it takes place in the Caves of Mak'ala, but I'm not sure. Other than that, I don't think the exact method was discussed in canon.--31dot 00:17, 29 October 2008 (UTC) :::Theres an episode where judgia is sitting in the spawning pool, in order to contact his host better. There nothing that supports this canon, but i belive that these spawning pools acts like a life habitat for the larvas, which upon they breed. On same episode jadgia meets the caretaker of these pools. (or whatever her name is) further supporting the idea that pools are the symbiots home and growing platform before insertion to a hosts.--JHawx 19:58, February 20, 2010 (UTC) Placement? I can't find the answer on wiki or here, maybe I'm not looking hard enough... is it ever revealed where, physically, the symbiont is located in the host? - 12:47, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :We know from and that an opening is cut roughly in the abdomen for the symbiont to enter, but I can't recall if it remained in that area, though I think so.--31dot 13:39, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::Ah. I assumed as much but I didn't know if that wasn't just Stargate talking. - 15:30, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::On DS9, the Jadzia Dax is prepared for removal and is shown to show only chest wrapping, thus the host is located on a belly area (Dr. Julian Bashir) is healing the area abowe of the bellybutton), and is a size of a american football, shaped as a pod and connecceted with umbrical cord like tissue. --JHawx 04:26, February 20, 2010 (UTC) Society I think theres a misuderstandment on the text. text as originally written to memory alpha: Trill don't look for romance the way Humans do. They consider it quite a nuisance and view it as a weakness of the young. Although a Trill host may have romantic feelings on occasion, it is the symbiont's wish to live on a higher plane and to try to rise above those sorts of temptations. (DS9: "A Man Alone") I think Jadzia Dax was joking with the Julian Bashir, he ment that the Bashir was just a yungling considering that he had had sevral life ages beyond, and temptation to take a "weakness of the young"... Its basicly a Jadzia joking about not being a "Gougar", trying to discourage the Dr. Because if i remember correctly, she and Worf gets together on later series of the DS9... So clearly, you cant propose this as a fact. --JHawx 04:26, February 20, 2010 (UTC) :: So i propose this line for removal as incorect fact? --JHawx 12:55, March 5, 2010 (UTC) Apocrypha Has there been any thought of removing this section since it all could, or perhaps even would, be more appropriate on Memory Beta? --Andaryn 02:32, March 2, 2010 (UTC) :While information from noncanon novels/games/etc. cannot be in the main article, it can be mentioned in Apocrypha sections. Memory Beta includes such information in their main articles as their scope is wider (all licensed products). Our mission is to be a "definitive and accurate" encyclopedia and leaving out such information would detract from that mission.--31dot 02:36, March 2, 2010 (UTC) ::They also tend to go far more in-depth than we do in the licensed products. I could see us trimming this one down a bit, to be honest. -OuroborosCobra talk 02:38, March 2, 2010 (UTC) :I've removed one paragraph which seems to go in a lot of detail- if there's a way to shorten it we could discuss putting something back. I also removed the final reference to their appearance- we don't need to be documenting mere apperances. *Also in that same novel, there was a crisis on Trill involving a terrorist organization of non joined Trills. Word got out that half of the entire Trill population was suitable for joining and that the joined Trills who had dominated the planets government and society for centuries were no more special than the rest. The crisis was made worse by the revelation that the neural parasite and Trill symbiont were closely related species, with the neural parasites being the result of genetic engineering by an ancient Trill colony on Kurl. The terrorist organization used a pulse attack to kill most of the symbionts on Trill. After this the Trill government announced that there would be no new joinings and as a show of good faith the Trill prime minister had her symbiont removed, using a new technology that allowed this to be done without killing a joined Trill. The Tellarite representative on the Federation Council asked for Trill's status as a Federation member to be reevaluated. *The Trill with facial ridges also appear in the "Unjoined" story in Worlds of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Volume Two.--31dot 03:03, March 2, 2010 (UTC) Trill symbiote picture As trill symbiote is essential part of joined trill, i see it is part of trill physiology. Trill themselfs aim to host the trill and have substantial medical, politival and religious beliefs on getting host. Trill themselfs as you describe it is a combination of 2 species, both which live on the planet. To that end, they do not differ from Romulans. So id say its an important part of mentioning on physiology, that some of the species include symbiote. Showing picture of this symbiote, is part of the demonstration. Remember that trill are considered as 1 as a race, not a symbiate which slaves the host (aka like the Goa'uld in stargate.) Its symbiotic relation, not slave and master. So i do say we need symbiote posted on the trill, as it is part of trill. That or post it on physilogy section. --JHawx 09:02, March 4, 2010 (UTC) :The reason we don't have that information here is most Trill are not joined. It isn't probable, or even vital, that a Trill would have one, and that information is already covered elsewhere. - 09:14, March 4, 2010 (UTC) This still doesent explain that if the species is described on having symbiosis relation, why they are separate in the first place? As the symbiotes has major part in major aspects of trill life. There is legistral, religious, cultural bondings to symbiote. It is similar to the Kesprytt on ( ) where the planet has 2 distinquised sections of a race. Still they both are classified as same species. Same is on Romulus, where are 2 sections. They still are classified as romulans. Even tho trill symbiotes are different species, they are still considered trill to trill. Essential part to add. And as trill brings many new charasteristics to trill, and takes major role... Thatswhy im stating that trill Human hosts are less significant to the symbiotes. What matters is not the outside, but what is in within. Thats the trill agenda im getting from the series. During Odans case, trill tried to hide the trill symbiotes existance, but later on on the DS9, they were essential part of the federation, however, as far as i know, none none united trill serves in federation. Major persons are always united. Only united trill guide trills untill theyr ready to receve symbiote. So... Majority of the trill is "second class citizens. Even tho you claim that majority of the trill are nonunited, that majority does not have cultural, historotical, legal or legistral majority of trill. All seem to spin around the symbiote, not the host. Without host tho, the trill cannot advance in life, so its symbiotical. So i argue this: how can you show trill, without this connection on the data? howcome there are no unjoined trill on images? rofl... i can go on all day on this issue, but to me, trill are misrepresented here. --JHawx 06:01, March 5, 2010 (UTC) :First, only Ezri is a joined Trill, her brother is not. Second, the symbiont is never called just a Trill, it's always the Trill symbiont or just symbiont. Third, the TNG Trill would need to be added to the sidebar before the symbiont in any case, and since the sidebar currently in use is going to be replaced soon, and I can tell you now that there won't be enough image slots to have the symbiont included anyway. Feel free to add it to the article if you want, but it will be removed from the sidebar anyway. - 06:28, March 5, 2010 (UTC) ::Wait, the Romulan species has two distinct parts, both called Romulans? Where do you get that information from? -- sulfur 13:21, March 5, 2010 (UTC) :::Remans are not Romulans, just as Trill symbionts are not Trill. It's not a biological imperative for Trill to have a symbiont(or apparently, the other way around either) so it is not part of their physiology.--31dot 13:24, March 5, 2010 (UTC) Trill symbol What episode does the symbol seen here come from? -- 15:54, August 25, 2010 (UTC) :I think it shows up on a communication screen in . It was seen a few times before that, also on communication screens. - 15:59, August 25, 2010 (UTC) Removed theories :It is theorised that Odan and other Trill like him represent either a sub-species of Trill. Second theory states that transporter technology was adjusted so the Trill host was not recognized as a parasitic entity, but as a symbiont instead. That was removed from the BG section. Who theorized that? -- sulfur 13:42, October 11, 2010 (UTC) And another: :Fans have speculated that the early diagnosis of a "parasite" may be the reason joined Trill could not previously use Starfleet transporters – the biofilter may have detected or even attempted to kill the symbiont. After the Odan incident, their joined nature became public knowledge throughout the Federation, and it is likely these filters were reprogrammed to allow Trill (such as Dax) to transport without worry, however there is no Canonical evidence to support this theory. Speculation is speculation is speculation. -- sulfur 12:46, January 4, 2011 (UTC)